Board and wing size

joerg-nordsee

Hello Craig,

could you give me advices for wingfoiling. I am 1,83m 68kg.

Following your recommendations and the availability of equipment I own since 2021:

Fanatic sky wing 5.8 (2021/110ltr)
Fanatic Aero Foil High Aspect (1500/250) w. Alu Mast750 and fuselage 800
Duotone echo 6.0

Purpose for winging is to extend my time on the water in low wind / small wave conditions, lake and north sea. Wind <15kn, swell <0,5m

It took me some time to get away from riding “windsurfing specific”. Now I feel quite confident with the board and I am able to jibe on the foil (1-2 out of 10), ride switchstance (although still a bit uncomfortably) and able to pump foil and wing if the wind is above 8-10kn. Since last week I use footstraps on the board (all the way forward) which help me to pump the board onto the foil significantly. Foil is in the most rear position because otherwise I needed to stand forward of the footstrap mounts and therefore touchdowns are likely to fail. My complaint about the board to always turn downwind and hard to keep upwind with low wind still exists but does not bother me right now anymore if the windspeed is higher than 5kn.

The foil itself is foiling early and stays in the air up to very low board speeds. I like to feel/hear the threatening of breaking to the surface to be able to counteract before stalling the foil.

What would I like to improve:

The effort to pump on the foil
Handling of the wing, the tips occasionaly touch the water when foiling (acceptable)
When pumping, the wing feels ineffective. I can not pump hard because avoiding the tip to touch the water the wing has to be too horizontally to be effective?

Begin 2022 I sailed on tenerife DPC a 2022 sky wing 5.6 with Aero HA 1500. The combination felt as comfortable as my 2021 5.8 with Aero HA 1500.
Duotone slick5.0 felt way easier to handle and although I could not yet pump properly felt nearly as powerful as echo 6.0?

What could be the next steps?

Upgrade board from 5.8-2021 to 5.0-2022? Less drag versus less lift
Upgrade or replace echo wing 6.0 to slick 5.0? Less power versus better pumping?
Upgrade to or add smaller foil?
Always considering favorite wind range 8-12kn or preferably lower, wind max 15kn, flat water or small waves <0,5m.

I also windfoil occasionally but feel when I improve on wingfoiling I will quit windfoiling?

Looking forward to your answer

joerg

craig

Hi Joerg, sounds like the classic issue that many "lighter" riders face - they need the stability of the big board to learn but very soon this size becomes far too big for pumping and riding, so a more radical downsize is needed vs 80-90kg riders who can use the bigger boards for longer.

So for your weight, I would suggest as a long term solution the Sky Wing 5'0/75L yes, this should really be enough volume (I'm 76/77kg and this is my only board most of the time, even in gusty Alpine Lake conditions with 6.0). I would keep the 1500 foil for now and add a Aero Free 1000/216 foil set, you will find this works great for your weight and eventually will probably only use that even in the lightest winds (as me and many of my wing buddies here do in light winds).

Regarding a Wing - for the wing range you suggest, given you are still progressing, I would not go down to 5.0, rather choose a 5.5 Duotone Slick SLS if you like a boom, or the Unit 5.5. I also like to use my 5.0 whenever possible, but have to admit lately I am back on the 6.0 more often due to using the smaller foil and actually having enough power is really much better than always being underpowered on 5.0 - in lighter winds. From constant 15knots upwards, 5.0 is great. Generally I think if you get more into winging as most people do (I know you are doing a lot of windsurfing too!), then a 2 wing strategy is good - 4.5 and 5.5 would be ideal for your range, that should cover you from 8-20knots easily.

joerg-nordsee

craig

Hello Craig,

thanks for your as always helpful input. I will follow your advice and look for a 5.0 sky wing and give it a try with my 1500foil set. Add the aero free 1000 next year.

Can you tell the span of my duotone echo 6.0 in comparison with slick 5.5 and 5.0 to estimate the probability of touching the water with these wings when pumping?
You are probably using a slick 6.0. Are you not facing this pumping issue?
As the SLS model is significantly more expensive than the "normal one" how do you rate the benefits SLS/normal in comparison to my old echo?

Jörg

craig

Hi Jörg, cool, go for it.

Re wing span, I don't have those, but the newer Slick SLS is wider than the older Slick for sure, somewhere between Slick and Unit, just more curved tips than Unit. For your height it's no issue to go for a Unit or Slick SLS in 5.5. Maybe a longer 82/90cm mast will help with a bit better clearance, having the tips touch is just an issue of time on water/getting a feel for it. Pumping the 6.0 and bigger you just need to hold the wing further above your head slightly, vs the smaller wings - lean forward and pump with wing and board. Slick SLS vs Echo - big step forward for sure, also the narrower boom makes a massive difference, especially in winter using gloves. I only use Units right now, mix of Dlab and normal, have tested some Slick SLS though too.

joerg-nordsee

craig

Hi Craig,

got a wing :-)

two more questions regarding board and foil. I own a sky wing 5.8(2021) with AL2.0 750/800 and 1500 Aero HA.

1-Sky wing 5.0: Are there any changes to expect for the 2023 model? and if, which?

2- As I mentioned in an earlier post: If the wind drops below 3 or 4 knots, so if the wing is no more flying on its own, my old sky wing 5.8 turns downwind. No problem, if the wind is above 5-6kn, so this is not a topic for the North Sea, but foiling on a gusty lake is very uncomfortable if the wind drops in between.

What helps: Foil all the way forward in the mast tracks. It still turns downwind below 3-4kn, but if I place the wing with the leeward hand all the way back and towards lee I can manage to taxi beam reach. But the forward foil position makes foiling difficult if a gust arrives because when on the foil I have to stand with my front foot in front of the front footstraps. My favorite foil position if the wind is above 8-10kn is all the way back in the tracks (makes foiling and pumping way easier).
As I have learned in the fanatic videos, the foil 3.0 is not only lighter and has less drag, the front wing seems also to be placed further ahead of the mast position (2cm?) which would allow to place the mast 2cm further forward than max rear position, which is now my favorite.

If I had all options I could imagine to
a) place a helper fin for taxiing in front of the mast?
b) crate more lateral resistance of the board hull, V?, sharper rails? . . . does the 2022 board shape help for this topic?
c) place the mast about 10cm further forward without changing the wing position relative to the board?

Do you have any suggestion what to do or to improve the "low wind turning downwind" situation?

Jörg

joerg-nordsee

Sorry, I made a mistake, the front wing of the foil seems to be placed further rear relative to the mast, which might help.

craig

Hi Jörg,

2023 the Team Editions will change, more on that 5.9.22 - the Bamboo 5'0" stays completely unchanged until summer/autumn 2023.
Hmm, yes if you place the foil too far forward it is harder to ride in stronger winds, due to the front foot pressure - the newer 3.0 will allow you to place the foil further forward - I'm a little surprised that you ride the foil all the way back on the 5'8" - but at 68kg, you are way too light for that board - I think if you take a smaller board, you would be able to push the rails more in non planing mode, to make the board go upwind/90°....personally if the wind drops below where I can fly the wing, I find just dropping the tip of the wing into the water and leaning on the rig for stability (75L board) helps to get home, or I just go onto my knees.

joerg-nordsee

craig
Hi Craig, thanks for the fast and informative reply :-) will wait until 5.9.22.
Dropping the tip and kind of "paddling" with the tip helped, but I thought there would be a better solution . . . and I am not sure if that is a good treatment for the wing.
5.8 was your recommendation to begin :-). Until I have my 5.0 I thought I could use the 5.8 for light wind on the lake but obviously I can sell it after this season. Good news.

craig

Hi Joerg, not a big issue for the wing so long as you do not put all your weight onto it? 5'8" for the start yes, but seems now your skill level has outgrown that size! :-) See a lot of lightweights using quite big boards longer than they need to at Garda/at our Bavarian lakes - it really slows down the skill developments, so don't wait too long! -)

joerg-nordsee

Hi Craig,

Got the recommended board. 5.0 sky wing for my weight is great, easier to pump onto the foil and less drag in case of a touchdown. But only as long as the wind is above 6-8kn. Below 5kn it is more comfortable to sit on the board ;-)) and it took me about half an hour to get used to the board and find the balance to start foiling :-((

Got the recommended foil. 1000 aero free set is great if the wind exceeds 11-13kn. Especially the higher board-speed makes it more fun to ride. So far ok. The tendency to turn off the wind at low windspeed remains and as well the necessity to place the mast fully rear or maybe max 2cm forward to have a balanced flight, although the straps are max forward.

This leads me to step three, getting the Alu Mast and fuselage V3. Which length mast and which length fuselage to buy?
With my V2 mast 750 I feel quite comfortable on flatwater. Nevertheless if there are small waves, which I cannot ride but have to cross, I feel that it is disturbing the balanced flight, still controllable, but because the waves are small, the frequency is above 1Hz so hard to control/follow the surface. Consequence is to maintain a small variation in flight height to not breach the surface or touch down.

Might a longer mast help? Fanatic describes it would help in the surf?
What is your recommendation for the mast length only for winging? 75, 82 or 90cm? What are the disadvantages if using an 82 or even 90cm mast besides ground clearance?

An experienced wingfoiler recommended using the 68Fuselage instead of 78/74, easier pumping and improved Maneuvers. What is your opinion? Which length would you recommend? What are possible disadvantages when using 68cm?

Thanks again for your support

Joerg

Today was a fun day on Northsea without foil, force 5, small waves, Freewave 85 with 5.3. Great combo!
Riding till after sunset :-)))

craig

Hi Joerg, good to hear it is coming together there with the gear. Re your settings on the 5'0", I would go for foil and straps in the middle actually, all the way fwd is not ideal for straps, especially with the foil so far back.

Re the mast/Fuselage - so 75 is good to practise with as it is not super long, but once it gets choppy/any waves, a 82 or 90 is better as you have more time to react when the foil wants to breach. 90 cm can be tricky if you are in beach breaks as you have to walk out even further in breaking waves...but in big swells it is then nice to have a bit more reaction time. 82 is a good allrounder for everything and our most sold size.

Fuselage- 68 is indeed easier to pump, will be more manoeuvre friendly, whereas the longer 78 gives more stability/ease of use? You seem to have a lot of front foot pressure with your settings, so I would take the 68 as this will reduce it as the foil is then a bit further back/lift is less on front foot.

Good to hear the windsurfing still happening, we are in Sicily at a European Dealer meeting, good winging every day but itching for some windsurfing action!

joerg-nordsee

Hi Craig,
happy new year to you and all in the team.
Winter time has arrived and although there were some days of foiling above 10°C I will stay dry instead of freezing in good old Germany . . .
So i will try to practice winging on a skateboard as we did with the windsurf rig back in the 80's. Do you have any recommendation regarding wing size for light wind skate winging. I do not want to ruin my 5.0 due to the long span.
Could this smaller wing also be my high wind lake setup >15kn average?
Best regards joerg

craig

Hi Joerg, thanks and same to you, may 2023 be filled with wind and good sessions for you! Luckily I am back home in Cape Town for a few warm weeks of wind, but soon also back in the sub 10° weather...no real experience with skateboards to be honest, but I guess like the windsurfing/skateboard, which I also used to do in the 80's - smaller is better...maybe a 4.0? Hmm, I like to ride my 5.0 up to about 20knots, sometimes more like today actually....so 15knots for a high wind wing is maybe too low....but 18-20knots will work..

ChrisCross

Hi guys,

can somebodY give me a suggestion for my second board?
With 90 kg/191 cm/sportive i own a Skywing board 5.4/95 l that i use mainly on our local lakes and lightwind.
I can jump 360 etc and i am on small foil so my level is quiet ok.

Now i am looking for a smaller one. I tried the Sky Style with 65 l and 75 l and i am not sure about the size. The start was a little bit of a hassle in the beginning but riding felt directly natural.
I want the board for the open sea from > 12 knot and want to learn advanced tricks in freestyle
on it.

What size would you suggest and what do your riders ride?

Thanks a lot for the answer.
Happy riding
Chris

craig

Hi Chris, I`m 76kg and really like to have the volume in the 4'11"/75L for the lake conditions where I mostly ride. For ocean riding/salt water/waves, you can always drop down a size so I tend to go onto the 4'9"/65L, like this week in Tarifa for example with smaller wings. If you are 95kg, you probably want a board which you can submerge and do a sitting start, as knee starts not possible. So probably actually better to go to the 65L - a 75L will of course be better maybe to occasionally use at the Lakes when it is more windy/you may manage a knee start still?

Generally the smaller the boards, the easier it is to rotate in the air, especially if you want to start trying 720'S or combination tricks? Our riders in Freestyle are mostly on the Sky Style 4'7"/55L, but most of them are pretty light in the 65-80 range. The much lighter guys tend to go on the Sky Surf 35/45L boards.